Season 2 - Episode 5: Black in Cancer: Lifting As We Climb

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Episode Guest

Ms. Sigourney Bonner

Ms. Sigourney Bonner is currently a PhD student at the University of Cambridge and the Co-founder and Chief Executive Officer of Black in Cancer.

 

 

 

 

 

Show Notes

Sigourney Bonner 
Chanelle Case Borden, Ph.D. 
Center for Cancer Training  
Black in Cancer 
2024 Black in Cancer Conference 

Ad: NanCI by NCI mobile application 

Cancer Research UK (CRUK)  
CRUK Black Leaders in Cancer PhD Scholarship Programme 
Paula Hammond, Ph.D.  

 Your Turn Recommendations

The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks by Rebecca Skloot 
The Basement with Tim Ross Podcast 
Drop the Ball: Achieving More by Doing Less by Tiffany Dufu 

Episode Transcript

Oliver Bogler: 
Hello and welcome to Inside Cancer Careers. Before we get to the episode – a quick announcement. In the conversation between my colleague Chanelle Case Borden and our guest Sigourney Bonner you will hear about the Black in Cancer Conference which will be held at NIH in June 2024. At the time we recorded the interview a couple of weeks ago, the registration for this in-person event was still open, but in the meantime due to overwhelming support, it is at capacity and registration is now closed. You can join the waitlist – find the link on the Black in Cancer website. Now, let’s listen to the interview.

Chanelle Case Borden:
Hello and welcome to Inside Cancer Careers, a podcast from the National Cancer Institute where we will explore all the different ways people fight cancer and hear their stories. I am your host, Chanelle Case Borden from NCI Center for Cancer Training. Today we are talking to Sigourney Bonner, a PhD student at the University of Cambridge and CEO of Black in Cancer. Listen through the end of the show to hear our guests make an interesting recommendation and where we invite you to take your turn.

Sigourney, for those listeners who may be unfamiliar with the organization, can you tell us a little bit more about Black in Cancer?

Sigourney Bonner:
Sure. So we started in the summer of 2020 as a result of a number of things, but we don't have to mention that there was lots of social justice movement during that time. But really it was an opportunity to bring together community. So when I started my PhD, I didn't know anybody who was a Black woman who'd done a PhD.

And that visibility piece was really important to me. So in the midst of that, I was looking for community. I found my co-founder via Twitter and we connected and just had a really big chat about what it meant to be Black and a cancer researcher and kind of found that it was twofold. So there was the visibility piece in finding it difficult to find people to aspire to. But on the other side, it was being this font of knowledge for our community and having, you know, our parents or our friends be like, “oh, my uncle's brother's sister's got breast cancer. What should I do?” And I'm like, “I don't know. I work in children's brain tumors”. So wanting to bring a community together that meant I did have the resource to be able to point them in the right direction and give them the right information. I really, that's what we do. So we're twofold increasing the number of Black cancer researchers and providing them visibility, but also bringing awareness about cancer to the community so they can be informed and empowered about their healthcare decisions.

Chanelle Case Borden: 
That's wonderful. I remember being in a very similar position myself. So my inspiration and wanting to be a PhD scientist was actually as a result of two white women, which is excellent mentorship. I thank them, I think that I had them in my life. But to your point, there was no one that looked like me that I could really point to. And I think things might have gone a little bit differently if I had that resource. So I think having an organization like Black Cancer is a wonderful resource for scientists going through their journeys now. So can you talk a little bit more about the UK and US connection? I think some people think that it's only in the UK. So can you tell us a little bit about how that works? So its really an international organization.

Sigourney Bonner:
Yeah, so we've always, I guess, wanted to make sure that we could spread the information as widely as possible. When we started, my co-founder, Henry, actually was a postdoc at Vanderbilt, and we were just talking about how similar experiences we had, you know, being different genders and across an ocean. And it was therefore a global issue. So we didn't want to start in one place and assume that all of the issues only occurred in one place. We speak so much and there's so much known about disparities, particularly when it comes to cancer within the US. But actually we don't talk about it a lot in the UK. And there's an assumption that because we have a national health service that it's equitable care. And actually a lot of work coming out is saying that that's not the case. So what we wanted to do is to continue to highlight that as a global issue and not just as a one place or another issue because they're things that we can cross-link and do in both places that will impact both communities. 

So yeah, that was what we really wanted to do. So we've been growing. We've had, so most of our programs occur across the US and the UK, but actually people who've come to our conference, as well as people who connect with us, people who work as part of our board of directors and our volunteers, are very international. So Canadians, people from the Netherlands, from across a number of African nations. We've had people connect with us from Australia and Brazil. It's really, really broad and shows that these issues of visibility or whether that's information about cancer that it's not just limited, it's really a global issue.

Chanelle Case Borden: 
I’m surprised but at the same time not surprised. Yeah, so speaking about the conference, there is a Black in Cancer Conference happening and it's happening right here at the National Institutes of Health this summer. So will you tell us a little bit more about what attendees can expect if they choose to participate?

Sigourney Bonner:
Yeah, sure. So what we wanted to do was we had a conference last in October of 2022, and we wanted to continue that work. But, you know, our next step is always how can we do it bigger? How can we do it better? So our next step was to see if we could move it to the US because we didn't want it to just be a UK thing and have this incredible collaboration with the Frederick National Lab and working with NCI, which is absolutely incredible.

So what we've really been doing the last few months, actually over the last year has been putting together this program of incredible researchers who were doing brilliant work in a number of different areas, but who are really pushing innovation and the forefronts of science for cancer patients. But we also never want to forget those that we're working for. So we also have patient advocates involved in what we do and they'll be speaking at the conference about their experiences.

So, pushing for more research within particular areas that particularly impact Black communities, whether that's thinking about things like triple negative breast cancer and the difference in diagnosis rates with those from the Black women and that community. So really just pulling together all of these incredible researchers, allowing them to network and really providing a space where no one can say.

“Oh, well, I didn't think that there was anybody who was Black, who was in this space. Otherwise, we would have brought them in for this panel or we would have invited them for this interview” or whatever it's like. They're here. They're thriving. They're doing brilliantly. We're providing visibility for them and really just a space where they can feel a sense of belonging more than anything.

Chanelle Case Borden:
Yeah, that's amazing. I think that awareness is really key and I'm actually really looking forward to being in a room like that. So are there other opportunities for folks who might be interested in Black in Cancer to get involved, maybe for the conference, but maybe just for the organization itself?

Sigourney Bonner:
Yeah, absolutely. So there is room for everyone. We have more things to do than we have hands being able to do them. So I guess this is a moment where I really want to shout out to our board and our volunteers, because all of this stuff that you see happening is actually from a really small set of really, really dedicated people who all have full-time jobs.

So whether they are early career researchers, just starting academic careers or just starting industry careers or PhDs like I am, or working in their outside of work hours, which as many people know, PhD hours don't really exist anyway. 

Chanelle Case Borden:
Not at all.

Sigourney Bonner:
So, are doing all of that incredible work to keep the organization moving, to keep our mentorship program going, to support our PhD students that are now in their second year and we've got another cohort starting. So yeah, just a huge shout out to them. And also we've just got so much more space, there’s so much we wanna do. We wanna grow our community impact work and making sure that people can be informed, but we need more people to be able to do that. We're a small team, but we want people in the spaces where these communities are to give that information, to answer the questions because that's how we, that's how we start to reduce disparities in the best way that we can on the ground.

Chanelle Case Borden:
Right, so that is through your two programs. So it's the Black and Cancer Pipeline Program and the Cancer Awareness Project. So do you want to tell us a little bit more about those?

Sigourney Bonner:
Yeah, sure. So, the pipeline program aims to support basically from undergrad all the way up. So, we have a mentorship program for undergraduates, both in the US and the UK. We have now had 80 students come through our program over the last three years who have gone on to do incredible things, whether masters, PhDs, gone into industry. 

And we're just incredibly proud of the work that they're doing. And some of them are still investing and pouring into the organization and volunteering. And so that's been really great. We have a collaboration with Cancer Research UK with their Black Leaders in Cancer Scholarship Program. So, we're supporting currently four students who started their PhD in October and bringing on another two this year. 

At the postdoc level, we have our postdoctoral fellowship awards. So those are $75,000 a year for three years for postdocs to continue their work. If they transition into a tenure track position in that time, it goes up to $100,000. And we'll be announcing this year's awardees at the conference, which we're really excited about. We also have Brilliant Young Investigator awards for those who have just started labs. So, we have announcing another one of those this year, and then our distinguished investigator award, which we gave out three years ago which went to Dr. Paula Hammond, who's now on the White House science advisory council and all of these things, so it's really brilliant. 

So that's how we are kind of supporting the pipeline all the way through on that side. But then on the other side, we really have been trying to just engage the community as much as we can, whether that's seminars, outreach, collaborating with other organizations and getting people tested. Whether that's prostate tests, et cetera, encouraging people to go for screenings. So we've done some really exciting work around that. And our seminar series worked incredibly. We tried to bring together the whole other cancer journey in that. So we'll have a patient who will talk about their personal experience. We'll have a clinician who talks about kind of the practicalities of what that looks like. And then somebody who is either a survivor, who is on the other side of that journey and who could just say like, this is me on the other side. I'm thriving. I'm doing great. This doesn't have to be a death sentence. 

So yeah, the programs coming together, they're still growing and moving. And yeah, we're just, our hope is always that people are impacted and that if we can help to change, save one life, that's enough.

Chanelle Case Borden:
Yes, I definitely agree with that. So if folks are interested, they would be able to just go to the Black in Cancer website to volunteer.

Sigourney Bonner:
Yeah, yeah, there should be like a little volunteer tab. But either way, just drop us an email. Or if you would like, I want to reach out via Instagram or Facebook or Twitter, however you want reach us, we're here and ready to bring you on board.

Chanelle Case Borden:
Excellent, excellent. Okay, well, it's time for a short break and when we come back, we'll talk to Sigourney about her career path, her science and her future plans.

[music starts]

Oliver Bogler: 
PubMed lists over 270,000 cancer papers published in 2022 – that is a staggering 750 papers every day. It’s great that cancer research is such an active field, but it makes finding the pubs that are critical to your work a challenge. What if you had an AI that paid attention to the papers you read and suggested others as they appear in PubMed? That is exactly what the NCI is building with an app called NanCI. With me to discuss NanCI are two members of the team that are creating NanCI.

Duncan Anderson:
NanCI  is an app for cancer scientists and it helps them to discover the research in new ways and connect with each other and build their personal networks and share information and get to know each other. We've just launched the ability to actually chat with a piece of research, so you can actually have a conversation and ask questions about a research paper itself.

JD Wuarin:
Instead of having to read the whole paper yourself, you can now simply ask questions and NanCI will answer those questions. One of the cool features we've also added is that it will read the abstract and figure out what questions you might want to ask the paper.

Duncan Anderson:
We're using artificial intelligence within NanCI to help to make information easier to find and easier to understand and easier to interact with. The only information we're using is the scientific data. So the research paper, for example, we don't allow our AI to go off and answer random questions that might introduce all sorts of concerns.

JD Wuarin:
And so the idea will be that eventually with NanCI straight from your pocket, you'll not only be able to chat with papers and understand what papers are about, but also based on your interest, it will suggest to you what you might want to investigate, maybe which gene mutation you might want to look at, which new disease might be related to what you're doing. And that's gonna be interesting, I think. 

Duncan Anderson:
If you start working in a field which you don't have a lot of experience in, it can be a bit daunting. There's a lot of information to read. We have this idea that you could tell NanCI what the field is and NanCI would go off and present you the key influential papers in that space so you can very quickly get your head around what this new field is. 

So today, NanCI  can be used by cancer researchers in the USA. So it's available from the Apple App Store for the iPhone. And there's a restriction on the downloads, which means that you need to have an email address associated with a cancer research institution.

[music ends]

Chanelle Case Borden:
And we're back. So now we're going to start to get to know Sigourney a little bit better. And to first start out that career journey conversation, we're going to talk about how you first got interested in science. So you want to share some details about that?

Sigourney Bonner:
Sure. So I guess my interest in science was kind of in, mainly in high school. I think I'd always been like kind of interested in science, but I wasn't the kid who had like the science kit and the microscope and was like digging for worms in the garden and looking at like, I would, that wasn't me. 

Chanelle Case Borden:
Oh, you weren't like me then. Okay, got it.

Sigourney Bonner:
I was the classic, like I want to be a pop star or an air hostess type vibes, like that was me. So yeah, I guess I, as I kind of went through high school, I was like, actually, I'm pretty, I'm okay at science. And I'd been thinking about like, you know, what I wanted to do. And originally I wanted to be a medic. So I was like, yeah, okay, this is a good path to go down. And then when it got to like my final year, so in the UK, you take A levels, which help you to get into university.

And I was that person that picked all three sciences, because I was like, I'm set. And then I actually missed my grades to get into med school, but it was the biggest blessing because it meant that I went to do physiology as my undergrad degree. And there I just, that was when I like really fell in love with like being in the lab and like getting to answer questions and like really like delving deeper into science where I didn't have to do the science I wasn't interested in either because I was a very people biology person. 

I had an opportunity to spend my time just throughout my kind of the second half of my first year of university in a lab, just getting to work on experiments and things in a neuroscience lab. And that was when I was like, wow, I sat in front of the microscope, I'd just done an experiment and I knew that nobody else knew the results but me. And I was like, this is so cool. I'm the first person in the world to do this. I was just there like secretly hoarding my science, but like, I was like, this is amazing. 

And that was the moment when I like, I really fell in love with it. And I was like, this is what I want to do. I want to be the first person to find this out. I want to be the one answering questions and figuring out what to do next. So it kind of just grew my passion and from there, it just kind of spiraled. So yeah, it was an unexpected path, but I'm really grateful that I get to do science every day now.

Chanelle Case Borden:
Yeah, that sounds really exciting. So you also spent some time in industry too. So after university, you went to industry, which is becoming an increasingly popular career choice. So can you tell us a little bit about your time there? And then also if you have any advice for early career scientists who are thinking about making that transition.

Sigourney Bonner:
So I actually had a little bit of industry experience before I finished my undergrad. So I did a year in industry, which is reasonably common in the UK. So, I took a year out of my undergrad to go and work for a pharmaceutical company for a year. So gained lots of skills, basically had my own standalone project. And there was, you know, I had supervisors, I had some guidance. But yeah, I just got to do science every day for a year. 

And with you know, being in pharma, there was a bit more kind of money to be able to just do stuff, try stuff out. And I actually managed to do lots of animal work, which was amazing and kind of unexpected. So, yeah, I spent a year doing that, kind of got some industry experience, which meant when I came out of my undergrad, I was like, oh, I've already kind of been in this for a year. And then they were like, oh, OK, you know what this is like. So that kind of helped me to break in just because I already had some industry on my, on my CV, which was really helpful. 

I guess thinking about the tips that I would give to people who are maybe thinking about industry - just think about the different ways in which academia and industry work and how they can be helpful either way. So for example, me starting my PhD after working in industry, I worked on a whole bunch of projects and I was really able to switch out and be like, okay, this isn't working anymore. And they've decided to close this project. I just need to move on to the next. Cool. So having less emotional attachment, especially within the context of now doing my PhD has been really helpful. So if something isn't working, I'll do the troubleshooting, I'll do as much as I can, but my heart isn't broken and I'm not pursuing dead ends, trying to make things work that maybe won't work or prove a hypothesis that everything else I've done says that's not what it is. 

So it's really helped me to kind of sharpen like, cool, this isn't working, but what is which other avenues can I go down? How can I make the most of what I do have and expand the knowledge that way? So that's been really helpful. So I guess just thinking about which ways do industry approach things versus which ways that academia approach things and which skills you have that play into the different viewpoints and therefore progressing projects forward in those different lanes.

Chanelle Case Borden:
I think that is a very valuable skill to have because we tend to get very tied to our projects and tend to have a difficult time being able to break away when things aren't working or not having the vision or the foresight to know that it's a dead end project. So I think that kind of experience is definitely invaluable and something to work on if it's a skill that you don't totally have. 

Okay. So in addition to running an international organization, you're also defending your dissertation too. So snaps, snap, snap. You want to tell us a little bit more about what you're working on now and how you do that. Because that's something we talked about. PhD hours are like not totally a thing.

Sigourney Bonner:
No. Yeah, it's been challenging. But what I will say is the attitude that we just spoke about, so being able to be like, this isn't working, cool, drop this, move on, has been really helpful. There's also been just like a lot of up and downs in the context of my project, just because I started in 2019, and then six months in, there was a pandemic and all sorts.

So that's been challenging, but I am also really blessed to have a really successful project. So there aren't many things that I've done that haven't worked. So it's been really good in that manner to just be able to, where there are dead ends, just stop. But I've got so much other data that I'm not too concerned. 

I'm also in a really well-funded lab. So being able to use things like multiomics approaches means that you've got lots of data all at once. And so that's been really helpful, but. I guess for context, I work on a rare children's brain tumor called supratentorial ependymoma. It's caused by a fusion gene, happens in early development. So my work has been making a mouse model and then characterizing that over development and then using that to understand how these tumors develop, when they develop, and actually we understood lots of new biology about it since we've made this model, which has been really exciting. And hopefully we'll change a bit of the trajectory about how we think about some of these tumor types, which is exciting. 

So yeah, it's coming together. I'm literally writing my overall introduction and discussion and will be done by the end of this month. 

Chanelle Case Borden:
Congratulations.

Sigourney Bonner::
So it's super exciting and I'm just, I'm ready to, I'm ready to progress with the next science topic. I actually miss being in the lab. So I'm like, I'm done with writing this, can I just do some more science now?

Chanelle Case Borden:
Okay, okay. So what's next for you? So speaking about getting back into science, so what are you going to do next?

Sigourney Bonner:
I guess it's kind of multifaceted. I'm staying in my lab to continue on as a postdoc for a number of reasons. And I know actually within academia, that's mildly controversial because it's the whole thing of like, don't stay where you are, move on to another lab. And it's one of those things where in a in a very practical manner that doesn't work for me unless I change field, which makes it really difficult. And I am, I love my science, but I'm determined that actually, my science shouldn't have to change the life I want to live either. So being like, if there are only other, the only other labs doing what I do are in Germany or the US, I don't want to be forced to move country to continue doing the science I want to do.

Chanelle Case Borden:
That makes sense.

Sigourney Bonner:
So there's that. But also, I mean, I love the project and being able to move forward with other angles of it is really exciting to me anyway. And the other big thing is that we as Black in Cancer now have our official headquarters within the building where I do my PhD. So Cancer Research UK have given us an office within the institute to have as our kind of global headquarters. So moving away from here also seems seems a little strange to do. So yeah, I'll be kind of continuing with both things. I continue with my science and then also Black in Cancer as it continues to grow beyond all I had imagined. And yeah, just see where we go from there really. I'm like the world is an oyster at this point. I had no idea I'd be at this point when I started so.

Chanelle Case Borden:
I mean, that's usually how it goes. I remember back in, I guess undergrad, but also grad school, when you hear scientists, they're like, I had no idea this was the path I was going to take. The journey is always the circuitous path. And you always, at that time, you're like, that's ridiculous. How did that ever happen? But now like sitting on the other side of it, it definitely feels surreal. And it's very exciting to hear about the amazing work you're doing both in the lab and in Black in Cancer.

[music]

Chanelle Case Borden:
Okay, so now it's time for a segment we call Your Turn, because it is a chance for our listeners to send in the recommendation that they would like to share. If you are listening, then you are invited to take your turn. Send us a tip for a book, a video, a podcast, or a talk that you found inspirational, amusing, or even interesting. You can send these to us at ncicc@nih.gov. Record a voice memo and send it along, and we may just play it in an upcoming episode.

So now I would like to invite our guest to take their turn. Sigourney, is there anything you'd like to share?

Sigourney Bonner:
Um, this is probably really classic and I don't know whether other people have said it before. Um, but I feel like if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably some form in some realm of the cancer space. And if you have not read or watched the movie that is the immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks, I, I, I don't know what else to say to you other than please log off now and, and invest in the book or the movie or something, please. 

Sigourney Bonner:
But I mean, outside of that, I mean, I also think about like fun things. I do listen to a bunch of podcasts. My favorite right now is probably called The Basement, which by actually by a pastor called Tim Ross, and he talks about a range of different topics. And I usually find that pretty good to tune into. They are pretty long, but yeah, present lots of different things from lots of different angles. So that's usually my like my throw on podcast. That's not science related.

Chanelle Case Borden: 
I mean, hey, every can't be science all the time anyway, so that's perfectly fine. 

Sigourney Bonner:
Hey, right, absolutely. Absolutely.

Chanelle Case Borden: 
We're well, well rounded around here. So I'd like to make a recommendation. So my recommendation is actually a book, it's called Drop the Ball by Tiffany Dufu. And as a professional being away from all those things, it always feels like there's not enough time in a day. However, I realized that there are a lot of that has to do with my expectations. And I realized that whether it be childhood trauma or whatever the case may be, my A-type personality, I tend to have these very, very high, very lofty goals that it ends up carrying, creating a lot of weight on my shoulders. So by reading this book, I've learned to kind of evaluate those expectations and set more realistic goals, ask for help when I can and do a lot more with less, which is really coming in handy with all the different hats that I wear, both at home and at work. So it's really helped me lighten the weight and thinking that I had to do everything all the time. So that's my recommendation. 

Sigourney Bonner:
Well, I will be jotting that down for myself, so thank you.

Chanelle Case Borden: 
Yes, yes, yes, please do. With that, thank you for your time Sigourney. It was a pleasure speaking with you and I look forward to seeing you in June at the Black and Cancer Conference. And I hope to see some of our listeners there as well.

[music starts]

Oliver Bogler: 

That’s all we have time for on today’s episode of Inside Cancer Careers! Thank you for joining us and thank you to our guests.

We want to hear from you – your stories, your ideas and your feedback are welcome. And you are invited to take your turn and make a recommendation to share with our listeners. You can reach us at NCIICC@nih.gov.

Inside Cancer Careers is a collaboration between NCI’s Office of Communications and Public Liaison and the Center for Cancer Training. It is produced by Angela Jones and Astrid Masfar.

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